• Sign in
  • Sign up
Elektrine
EN
Log in Register
Modes
Overview Chat Timeline Communities Gallery Lists Friends Email Vault DNS VPN
Back to Timeline !asklemmy @Cowbee
In reply to 5 earlier posts
@zachimusprime44@lemmy.world on lemmy.world Open parent
Open parent Original URL
40
0
81
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml on lemmy.ml Open parent
If you mean the Statesian, pro-capitalist kind, it’s mostly a silly ideology pushed by small business owners and other highly individualist classes that are nonetheless pushed towards the working classes by competing against ever-growing monopolies. The left wing version, I disagree with as you can’t dismantle the state without removing the basis of the state, class, and you can’t remove class without collectivizing production and distribution. Small, local cells loosely organized in a decentralist fashion would still result in class struggle and thus a form of state to hold one class over the others.
Open parent Original URL
16
0
20
@MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world on piefed.world Open parent
The first “definition” doesn’t fit the group you’re trying to define. If you’re talking about American (using the Us as shorthand)…they are by no means restricted to small business owners, that’s but a small (albeit with outsized power) enclave in the “coalition”. Their policy ideologically empirically opposes the working class. There’s no lefti wing version of the word, or rather, the proper definition is leftist. What you’re describing seems to be an ideological axe you have to grind with Marxism, or socialism something. Actual libertarianism is simply a school of thought - a collection of philosophies - that prioritize individual liberty (freedom). Generally these philosophies aren’t related to American libertarianism/freedom…it’s more of a freedom *from rather than a freedom to* thing…to oversimplify: leftist (real) libertarians believe power structures shouldn’t impede the (not obstructive and lawful) activists of the people - it’s very conscious of power differentials, while American libertarians believe in an absolute right to individual freedom that may or may not conflict with other peoples’ freedoms - after that point of tension it comes down to functional power (thus it’s antithetical to the proper definition).
Open parent Original URL
2
0
19
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml on lemmy.ml Open parent
First off, you’re a bit confused here. I’m a Marxist-Leninist, my critiques are from that framework. As for the libertarian movement in the States, I was referring to who makes up the basis of that movement. The wealthiest capitalists are usually not libertarians, they enjoy strong state control and regulations that they can fix in their favor. The basis of libertarianism is in the small business owners, the petite bourgeoisie, who see little of the systems benefits while trying to retain their privledged positions over others. I’m well-aware of what you define as “actual” libertarians, and my critique of them is from a Marxist point of view. I’m not an anarchist, while I enjoy working with anarchists and share a common enemy, our strategies and analysis end up in fundamentally different areas. The reason I broke them up as I did was because OP was vague enough that they could be asking for either, so I answered both.
Open parent Original URL
8
0
18
@MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world on piefed.world Open parent
You’re just not accurately describing American libertarianism…it does, indeed, have wealthy people behind it, because American libertarians also loves a strong state that can fix regulations in their favour. Peter Thiel and some of the Koch’s are “libertarians”, ffs. I think what’s happening here is you’re describing the Dave Smith party/partisan type libertarians, and not the movement at large. The niche that runs a presidential candidate and puts small business owners on stage at the convention is a “boutique” brand of libertarianism, and doesn’t represent the much larger group of people who, for example, Donald Trump shows up and tries to woo: yeah, he got bood in the building…but he was talking to all the libertarians who were threatening to abandon his coalition. I mean…I stand by what I said…your definitions weren’t accurate…but knowing that you’re a Marxist now means this is likely just an “academic” issue. Your leftist definition was confusing without that context. I don’t care for anarchists, really…even tho I occasionally caucus with them. I used to hate them as much as right libertarians - horse shoe theory and all - but I’ve softened because it’s time to coalesce…strategy almost doesn’t matter any more…we need action. I’m am super thankful they haven’t been polluting “our” protests to the degree they used to.
Open parent Original URL
2
0
17
5
Cowbee
Cowbee [he/they] in !asklemmy
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml · Dec 04
It isn’t just academic, and the fact that you can find self-professed libertarians among the wealthiest capitalists doesn’t mean they agree with the actual ideas of “small government capitalism.” The wealthiest aren’t libertarians, by and large, but at this moment more fascist than anything. What drives someone to be a libertarian? Someone who feels crushed by the state while also disapproving of social services, ie the small business owners. The fact that libertarianism is primarily driven by small business owners doesn’t mean they are the only libertarians. Marxism-Leninism is a proletarian ideology, but also has class traitors. The boutique libertatianism you speak of isn’t just the conventions, but people you run into in real life from time to time, and they usually are in that sole proprietor/small business owner class. As for Marxism, Marx outlined the law of value, dialectical and historical materialism, as well as scientific socialism. He didn’t create a model, correct, but he did arm us with how we should go about creating a socialist state. Marxism has been put into practice by groups like the bolsheviks, creating Marxism-Leninism, which then has been put into practice around the world. Marx was helpful not just for the why of capitalism being bad, but how to end it and begin socialism.
View on lemmy.ml
5
16
0
Sign in to interact

Comments (16)

Showing 0 of 16 cached locally.
Syncing comments from the remote thread. 16 more replies are still loading.

Loading comments...

About Community

asklemmy
Asklemmy
!asklemmy@lemmy.ml

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

  • !lemmy_support@lemmy.ml
  • !fediverse@lemmy.ml
  • !selfhosted@lemmy.world

Looking for a community?

  • Lemmyverse: community search
  • sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
  • !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

54000
Members
9198
Posts
Created: April 25, 2019
View All Posts
313k7r1n3

Company

  • About
  • Contact
  • FAQ

Legal

  • Terms of Service
  • Privacy Policy
  • VPN Policy

Email Settings

IMAP: mail.elektrine.com:993

POP3: pop3.elektrine.com:995

SMTP: mail.elektrine.com:465

SSL/TLS required

Support

  • support@elektrine.com
  • Report Security Issue

Connect

Tor Hidden Service

khav7sdajxu6om3arvglevskg2vwuy7luyjcwfwg6xnkd7qtskr2vhad.onion
© 2026 Elektrine. All rights reserved. • Server: 23:24:31 UTC