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Back to Timeline !linux @Oinks
In reply to 3 earlier posts
@Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world on lemmy.world Open parent
That’s a good point about what the OS provides. I come from an embedded context, so often RTOS are not much more than a kernel that’s handling some basic threads and processor access. There was a really interesting talk at USENIX a few years ago (Usenix 21 keynote with Timothy Roscoe, I just looked it up) that was basically saying that a modern OS like linux, isn’t even accessing hardware and is just an OS in a system of OSs on a computer. So you are not wrong about what you are calling bare metal, but that usage is more popular at the moment, but the older meaning of bare metal actually just means “no OS.” It’s still very common in embedded world. They are the same words, but do have different meanings. I cannot find it at the moment, but about 10 years ago I had found a guy at Tufts (I think) who was publishing about actual bare metal (no os) single process machines that would run a server with nothing else. It was supposed to be helpful for security reasons. It was definitely whacky. I cannot find it because the server-farm usage of bare metal has taken over :( [Bare-Metal (redirect on wiki)[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_metal ] I do now see that “bare metal server” is not going to be the right search term. Perhaps bare metal computing? I’m not sure. But what I am talking about pre-dates virtualization.
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@Oinks@lemmy.blahaj.zone on lemmy.blahaj.zone Open parent
There was a really interesting talk at USENIX a few years ago (Usenix 21 keynote with Timothy Roscoe, I just looked it up) that was basically saying that a modern OS like linux, isn’t even accessing hardware and is just an OS in a system of OSs on a computer. This was indeed a very interesting talk. Not sure if the accusatory tone was warranted but I’m not really the target audience. One aspect that he only mentioned in passing is that hardware manufacturers seem to be very happy to entertain Linux’s (and Windows’) assumptions about memory, just like they seem to be very happy to entertain assumptions about execution order. Nobody wants to make hardware that requires a weird bespoke operating system because of its bespoke microarchitecture (except perhaps for Apple, though I’m not confident they’re really innovating in this regard). Maybe I lack perspective but I don’t really see a nice way out of this either, since nobody wants to buy hardware that requires weird bespoke operating systems either (except once again Apple). And I don’t see how an operating system could be widely supported across many different SoC designs without accumulating a similar complexity to modern Linux. We should definitely be feeling mildly uncomfortable about this entire thing though.
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@Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world on lemmy.world Open parent
Looks like I’ve replied to you a few times, and sorry for the accusatory tone! Didn’t mean it! You did get me worried since I’m going to be used “bare metal” in my embedded class later this semester, and felt like I had gone insane not being able to find it anywhere. I was mostly just trying to convince myself this morning I wasn’t insane. I had thought it was the standard terminology. I do also need to caveat this that I am not familiar with whatever law OOP was referencing. I’m assuming it was one of the either baked-in surveillance or age verification things. Yeah, I’m with you and don’t really see a way out, unless we just step way back in time when we had less standardization and do bespoke everything. Cheers, and sorry for the tone!
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Oinks
Oinks in !linux
@Oinks@lemmy.blahaj.zone · Mar 07
Oh no I wasn’t talking about you, sorry about that. I meant the tone of Timothy Roscoe which rubbed me the wrong way. I might be a bit oversensitive since it reminded me of how science cranks like to talk about their discoveries - You know, how people like Ovi Loeb or Eric Weinstein will go on Joe Rogan and complain how nobody in academia is taking them seriously. Obviously not what Roscoe is doing but it sounded a tiny bit like that to my ears (I also wrote that comment before finishing the Q&A section where he didn’t come off like that at all). I was mostly just trying to convince myself this morning I wasn’t insane. I had thought it was the standard terminology. No you are actually correct, “bare metal” does in fact mean “without an OS”. It just got co-opted to mean… other things additionally, and in the case of servers specifically the new usage ended up crowding out the original one.
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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