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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔

@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
mastodon 4.5.7

Bluesky user?  Read @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

genuine Internet Old Fart
(you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you).
professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ.
#LambdaMOO #perl #scheme #AlgebraicTopology #concurrency #Princeton #Cambridge #Stanford #autism #AbsolutePitch #RomanHistory #BoardGames #atheist #piano #microtonal

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Joined November 19, 2022
GITHUB:
https://github.com/wrog
DREAMWIDTH:
https://wrog.dreamwidth.org
FAILBOOK:
https://www.facebook.com/roger.crew.79# searchable
wROG:
https://wrog.net

Posts

Thread context 3 posts in path
Root @kentpitman@climatejustice.social Open
on mastodon.murkworks.net
Open ancestor post
Parent @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net Open
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org There were other weirdnesses as well. Even if GC saves you the horror of referencing freed s
Current reply
wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · 6d ago
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @JamesGosling@universeodon.com I should note that seeing this https://universeodon.com/@JamesGosling/116173132555028212 reminded me that I didn't actually totally understand this https://mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/116169652684073570 until it came time for me to implement my own garbage collector for ASTLOG, and I'm definitely **not** any kind of GC expert. I used a dirt-simple 2-space copying collector that Appel published in the 80s that somebody pointed me to. it ran every bit as fast as promised. (and debugging a GC is such an acid trip. Stuff just **disappears**; you have to figure out how (who'd've guessed this would happen?). I now think that writing a GC, like dissecting frogs in 9th grade, is something that **everybody** should do at least once.
Quoting
James Gosling @JamesGosling@universeodon.com
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org Your understanding is mostly faulty. The original GC was written by me, and I'm no Lisp GC expert. I was (and still am) an admirer of Lisp. I wrote the code for my whole PhD thesis in Lisp. My admiration for garbage collection started earlier, when I was a big user of Simula in the 70s. But the motivation for GC in Java was different: the motivation was all about reliability and security. A leading cause of security vulnerabilities as always been buggy code. And one of the leading root causes of many long standing, hard to diagnose and fix, bugs has been flakey storage management. Garbage collection goes a long way to increasing system reliability, and hence security. I had always wanted to make GC more mainstream. When you described garbage collection to senior management back in the day, their reflexive judgement was: "bullshit! Lazy engineers just don't want to clean up their mess". But when they see measureable improvements in system robustness, and corresponding decreases in failures, they Notice.
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 09, 2026
#Monsterdon too bad about Glauca, then ?
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 09, 2026
#Monsterdon I'll take Bad Celestial Mechanics for $600
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 09, 2026
#monsterdon Lacunt ???
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 09, 2026
#Monsterdon it's the Small Stonehenge from Spinal Tap
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Thread context 2 posts in path
Parent @screwlisp@gamerplus.org Open
on gamerplus.org
Open ancestor post
Current reply
wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@screwlisp@gamerplus.org @mousebot@todon.nl @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca yay, actual experience, actual review. thanks.
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Current reply
wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@mdhughes@appdot.net @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca > I stick to posting longer-than-two-posts content to my blog, ... yeah, that's clearly the Right Thing, but has the disadvantage of not inflicting my text on people directly 🙂
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Root @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz Open
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Open ancestor post
Parent @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net Open
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca what I *currently* do is compose inside Emacs (the *only* non-pa
Current reply
wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca given that I once-upon-a-time wrote a MAPI client for the sake of being able to post to Microsoft Exchange forums in rich text using courier font, in theory, I should be able to do this. ... but that would mean I'd have to Learn Fediverse. crap. hmm: https://codeberg.org/martianh/mastodon.el now I just have to figure out if this is the best one or if this just Guy Who Grabbed the Name first and did the best SEO twigging ...I hate that google search has gotten so enshittified)
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca what I *currently* do is compose inside Emacs (the *only* non-painful alternative for long posts), then manually decide how I'm going to break it up -- which actually has some literary content to it, because in some cases, you *do* want to arrange the breaks for maximal dramatic effect (generalized How to Use Paragraphs) Problem 1 being that emacs doesn't count characters the same way as mastodon does, and I don't find out until I've cut&pasted part n, which doesn't happen until I've already posted parts 1..n−1 Problem 2 being having to cut&paste in the first place when I should just be able to hit SEND (which then has to be from within emacs).
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@Thumper1964@mindly.social @MikeGorse@mindly.social > but they're still having to do work and I'd even go so far as to say they're doing *all* of the work that involves actual thought, because the agent is inherently incapable of that part.
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Parent @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net Open
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Yeah, I don't know. Maybe '~' was prevalant in Emacs source, or
Current reply
wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca > I also recall '~' being an important character ok, I seem to be out-to-lunch on this (or at least, remembering Something Else; but I can't imagine what...): https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/emacs11/emacs11.tec (admittedly, this is VAX/PDP-11 TECO source for Emacs and maybe Fred had to do a complete rewrite of some sort and the actual TOPS20/PDP-10 source is completely different, but I kind of doubt it). It *does* definitely look like line noise, though.
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wrog
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

mastodon.murkworks.net
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

Bluesky user?  Read http:// mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/1 15830246587842492 genuine Internet Old Fart (you under 40 ⟹ I have email older than you). professional clueless, middle-aged white guy. He/him. Former Dem.party-hack. Math/CS degrees + physics courses. Music theorist by marriage. Former MSFT. Seattle area; orig.from NJ. # LambdaMOO # perl # scheme # AlgebraicTopology # concurrency # Princeton # Cambridge # Stanford # autism # AbsolutePitch # RomanHistory # BoardGames # atheist # piano # microtonal

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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 08, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Yeah, I don't know. Maybe '~' was prevalant in Emacs source, or I'm conflating TECO with Something Else. By my era VT-52s were gone, you'd occasionally see a VT100 in a server room for not wanting to waste $$ there, the terminal of choice at Stanford CS was the Heathkit-19 + if you were in one of the well-financed research groups, you got a Sun-1 or a Sun-2. At DEC(WSL) where I interned, it was all personal VAXstations. I do recall Emacs ^S and ^Q being problematic due to terminal mode occasionally getting set badly (and then the underlying hardware would wake up, "Oh, flow control! I know how to do that!", ^S would freeze everything and you had to Just Know to do ^Q...)
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To be sure, my Perl tends to be more structured. On the other ha
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... and, crap, I messed up the threading (it seems 9 and 10 are
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca hmm... is there a way to do a reply that is *also* a quote-post?
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca (I'm guessing a mastodon UI that actually respects the use of surreal numbers to number multipost components and rearranges threads accordingly will be implemented approximately never. … though I suppose it could turn out to be one of the more creative ways to get kicked off of the Fediverse … ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number (𝜔/2)/11
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca You may say that untyped lambda calculus and SKI combinatory cal
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To be sure, my Perl tends to be more structured. On the other ha
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... and, crap, I messed up the threading (it seems 9 and 10 are
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca hmm... is there a way to do a reply that is *also* a quote-post? I should try this. https://mastodon.murkworks.net/@wrog/116185582433077397 (𝜔+1)/11
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔ @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was needing to write a tree walk, and I wrote it in FORTRAN -- because that's what was available at AT&T Basking Ridge (long story) -- using fake recursion, because I *could*; I think my supervisor (who was not really a programmer, to be fair) blue-screened on that one. And *then* I tried to explain it all to my dad... 8/n
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@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca it's not so much the editor itself, which, from your description
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I also recall '~' being an important character that showed up a lot in TECO for some reason, and *normally* the only time you'd see sequences of ~'s in large numbers was when your modem was dying and your line was about to be dropped and this may, at least partially, be where TECO's "line noise" reputation came from.
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca it's not so much the editor itself, which, from your description doesn't seem that much worse than, say, what you had to do in IBM XEDIT to get stuff done, but the macro system, specifically, which as I understand it,(1) was an add-on, (2) would have needed utility commands that one didn't use in the normal course of editing (e.g., for rearranging arguments + building control constructs) and therefore were put on obscure characters, and *this* is where things went nuts… I recall briefly viewing the TOPS-20 Emacs sources … *did* look like somebody had whacked a cable out in the hall (time to hit refresh-screen) … granted, I may be misremembering; this *was* 40 years ago…
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Yeah I had <1 year stuck on DEC-20s at Stanford before Unix boxes became generally available (originally had to be an RA on a grant with its own VAX, and incoming students on NSFs typically weren't). Seeing Gosling Emacs that first spring, it was clear that was The Future... => less reason to do TECO ... though ironically, I *did* learn the SAIL editor (SAIL/WAITS -- TOPS-10 derivative -- was, by 1985, a completely dead software ecosystem, *only* continued to exist because Knuth and McCarthy had decades of crap + sufficient grant $$ for the (by then) fantastic expense to keep it going; the only other people who used it were the 3 of us maintaining the Pony (vending machine))
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was nee
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca You may say that untyped lambda calculus and SKI combinatory cal
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To be sure, my Perl tends to be more structured. On the other ha
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... and, crap, I messed up the threading (it seems 9 and 10 are siblings, so you'll miss 9 if you're reading from here. Go back to 8.) (I hate this UI. If anybody's written an emacs thing for doing long threaded posts please point me to it, otherwise it looks like I'm going to have to write one ...) $/11
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... in Pascal.. And there I finally learned about and was able t
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was nee
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca You may say that untyped lambda calculus and SKI combinatory cal
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To be sure, my Perl tends to be more structured. On the other hand, I also hate Moose (Perl's attempt at CLOS) and have thus far succeeded in keeping that out of my life. I also remember there being a time in my life when I could read and understand APL. But if you do think it's possible to come up with some kind of useful formal definition/criterion for "expressiveness", go for it. I'll believe it when I see it. 11/11
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Then there was the section on call-by-name (the default paramete
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... in Pascal.. And there I finally learned about and was able t
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was nee
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca You may say that untyped lambda calculus and SKI combinatory calculus and so on) are all *dreadful* in terms of expressiveness, and I will probably agree, ... but it also seems to me that Barendregt got pretty good at it. I'm also guessing TECO wouldn't have existed without there being people who managed to wrap their brains around it and found it to be expressive and concise. I myself never got there (also never really tried TBH), ... but at the same time, it's *still* the case that if I need to write a one-liner to do something, chances are, I'll be doing it in Perl, and I've heard people complain about *that* language being essentially write-only line-noise. 10/11
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Then there was the section on call-by-name (the default paramete
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... in Pascal.. And there I finally learned about and was able t
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was nee
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca And, to be fair, by then, he had changed jobs/companies, moved up to the bottom tier of management, wasn't using The Computer anymore, so maybe the interest had waned. But it struck me that I was never able to get past showing him the factorial function and, "That can't possibly work." He had basically accepted the FORTRAN model of things and that was that. Later, when he retired he got one of the early PC clones and then spent vast amounts of time messing with spreadsheets. 9/11
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca This was post-Algol-68, but evidently the DEC folks were not hap
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Then there was the section on call-by-name (the default paramete
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... in Pascal.. And there I finally learned about and was able t
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca To the point where, the following summer as an intern, I was needing to write a tree walk, and I wrote it in FORTRAN -- because that's what was available at AT&T Basking Ridge (long story) -- using fake recursion, because I *could*; I think my supervisor (who was not really a programmer, to be fair) blue-screened on that one. And *then* I tried to explain it all to my dad... 8/n
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I still remember trying to teach my dad about recursion. He was
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca This was post-Algol-68, but evidently the DEC folks were not hap
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Then there was the section on call-by-name (the default paramete
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net

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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca ... in Pascal.. And there I finally learned about and was able to get used to using recursion. Although I'd say I didn't *really* get it until the following semester taking the assembler course and learning about *stacks*. It was like recursion was sufficiently weird that I didn't really want to trust it until/unless I had a sense of what was actually happening under the hood, And THEN it was cool. 7/n
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I believe expressiveness is a cognition issue, i.e., having to d
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I still remember trying to teach my dad about recursion. He was
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca This was post-Algol-68, but evidently the DEC folks were not hap
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca Then there was the section on call-by-name (the default parameter passing convention for Algol) ... including a half page on Jenson's Device, that, I should note, was presented COMPLETELY UNIRONICALLY because this was 1972, as in, "Here's this neat trick that you'll want to know about." And my reaction was, "WTFF, why???" and also, "That can't possibly work, either." Not having any actual computers to play with yet, that was that for a while. Some years later, I got to college and had my first actual programming course... 6/n
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca The point of Turing equivalence is that even though we have diff
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I believe expressiveness is a cognition issue, i.e., having to d
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I still remember trying to teach my dad about recursion. He was
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca This was post-Algol-68, but evidently the DEC folks were not happy with Algol-68 (I found out later *nobody* was happy with Algol-68), so ... various footnotes about where they deviated from the spec; not that I had any reason to care at that point. I encountered the recursive definition of factorial and I was like, "That can't possibly work." (the FORTRAN and Basic manuals were super clear about how each subprogram has its dedicated storage; you just *can't* *have* two instances active at the same time...) 5/n
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca The point of Turing equivalence is that even though we have diff
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I believe expressiveness is a cognition issue, i.e., having to d
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I still remember trying to teach my dad about recursion. He was a research chemist. At some point he needed to do some hairy statistical computations that were a bit too much for the programmable calculators he had in his lab. Warner-Lambert research had just gotten some IBM mainframe -- this was early 1970s, and so he decided to learn FORTRAN -- and he became one of their local power-users. Roughly in the same time-frame, 11-year-old me found a DEC-10 manual one of my brothers had brought home from college. It did languages. Part 1 was FORTRAN. Part 2 was Basic. But it was last section of the book that was the acid trip. Part 3 was about Algol. 4/n
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca The point of Turing equivalence is that even though we have diff
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca I believe expressiveness is a cognition issue, i.e., having to do with how the human brian works and how we learn. If you train yourself to recognize certain kinds of patterns, then certain kinds of problems become easier to solve. ... and right there I've just summarized every mathematics, science, and programming curriiculum on the planet. What's "easy" depends the patterns you've learned. The more patterns you know, the more problems you can solve. Every set of patterns that you can re-express as sub-patterns of one big super-pattern that's small enough to keep in your head is a win. I'm not actually sure there's anything more to "intelligence" than this. 3/n
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca The point of Turing equivalence is that even though we have different forms for expressing algorithms and there are apparently vast differences in comprehensibility, any differences in what can utltimately be achieved by the various forms of expression is an illusion. We have, thus far, only one notion of computability. (which is not to say there can't be others out there, but nobody's found them yet) 2/n
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 07, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca [..it's possible I'm missing the point, but I'm going to launch anyway...] I believe trying to define/formalize "expressiveness" is roughly as doomed as trying to define/formalize "intelligence". w.r.t. the latter, there's been nearly a century of bashing on this since Church and Turing and we're still no further along than "we know it when we see it" (and I STILL think that was Turing's intended point in proposing his Test, i.e., if you can fool a human into thinking it's intelligent, you're done; that this is the only real test we've ever had is a testament to how ill-defined the concept is...) 1/n
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 05, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org Is this the book you're talking about? (sorry this was after my time in Scheme Land, hadn't heard of it before) https://www.amazon.com/Garbage-Collection-Handbook-International-Perspectives-dp-1032231785/dp/1032231785/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 05, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org yeah, usually I start with 1/n and then edit all of the n's later, but today I was lazy
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz > On the timeline of a hypothetical observer far outside that gravity well, of course ?? not sure what you mean. This is about a completely flat spacetime, so being far awa
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz We can even do a "twin paradox" scenario: I step off the ledge on the 100th floor (t,z)=(0,1) for those Moving People. √3/2 ≈ 0.866 years later the 50th floor ship catches
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 05, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz Or, instead of stepping off the ledge, I could have the 100th floor people launch me upwards at velocity angle 5 (0.9999092c), so that they can then catch me 10 years later coming down that fast. But for me, the passage of time in free fall will be 2sinh(5) or 148.4 years. 3/2
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@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz > On the timeline of a hypothetical observer far outside that gravity well, of course ?? not sure what you mean. This is about a completely flat spacetime, so being far awa
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 05, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz We can even do a "twin paradox" scenario: I step off the ledge on the 100th floor (t,z)=(0,1) for those Moving People. √3/2 ≈ 0.866 years later the 50th floor ship catches up with me (√3/2,1) Assuming I somehow survive landing in that net (delta-v is a ruinous 0.866c; velocity angle 𝜑 ≈ 1.317, which represents a passage of time of 𝜑 years on the 100th floor and 𝜑/2=0.658 years on the 50th floor), I can then spend 5−𝜑 years on the 50th floor, then have them fire me upwards at 0.866c, just fast enough that after another 0.866 years in free fall, the 100th floor people can grab onto me, but for them a total of 10 years will have passed since I first stepped off. For me, total time passed will be 5−𝜑+√3 ≈ 5.415 years. 2/2
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 05, 2026
@dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz > On the timeline of a hypothetical observer far outside that gravity well, of course ?? not sure what you mean. This is about a completely flat spacetime, so being far away makes no difference in the distances/times that an inertial observer will measure. There is no actual gravity well here. When I said, > Gravity increases as you go downstairs, > but you'll live longer. I was referring to the experience of the passengers on the accelerating ships, the fake gravity that they feel; the passage of proper time is slower on the ships that are closer to the origin (and hence accelerating harder). And since it's proper time we're talking about, this is true no matter who's reference frame we're using. 1/2
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 04, 2026
@screwlisp@gamerplus.org @kentpitman@climatejustice.social @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org @dougmerritt@mathstodon.xyz 5? maybe for mark&sweep but I can't see how more than 2 would ever be necessary for a copying GC. Once you have enough space to copy everything *to* (on the off-chance that absolutely everything actually *needs* to be copied), you're basically done... ... and if you're following the usual pattern where 90% of what you create becomes garbage almost immediately, you can get by with far less.
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 04, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org There were other weirdnesses as well. Even if GC saves you the horror of referencing freed storage, or freeing stuff twice, you still have to worry about memory leaks and moreover, dropping references as fast as you can matters With copying GC, leaks are useless shit that has to be copied -- yes it eventually ends up in an old generation but until then it's getting copied -- and copying is where generational GC is doing work, and it's stuff unnecessarily surviving to the medium term that hurts you the most (generational GC *relies* on stuff becoming garbage as quickly as possible) And so, tracking down leaks and finding places to put in weak pointers started mattering more... 4/3
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 04, 2026
@kentpitman@climatejustice.social @screwlisp@gamerplus.org @cdegroot@mstdn.ca @ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org Generational GC changes the way you program and it's not *just* that it's efficient. We used MIT-Scheme (which, by the early 90s was showing its age). We did all manner of weird optimizing to use memory efficiently. Lots of set! to re-use structure where possible. Or (map! f list) -- same as (map...) but with set-car! to modify in-place -- because it made a HUGE difference not recreating all of those cons cells => bumps memory use => next GC round is that much sooner (and then everything STOPS, because Mark & Sweep). Also stupid (fluid-let ...) tricks to save space in closures. We were writing Scheme as if it were C because that was how you got speed in that particular world. 1/3
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 03, 2026
@cafuego@misanthrope.social Make sure you use proper filters. Do not look directly at the moon.
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@rmd1023@infosec.exchange @moira@mastodon.murkworks.net It is possible I'm not being completely fair. I probably did subscribe to any number of Geek Social Fallacies (this preceding that blog post by
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 03, 2026
@rmd1023@infosec.exchange @moira@mastodon.murkworks.net The only thing that really pissed me off was that he lied about being a non-smoker on the form in order to not get paired with a smoker. And while he promised he'd never smoke in the room and kept to it as far as cigarettes were concerned, this evidently didn't apply to marijuana... 1.2/1.2
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Mar 03, 2026
@rmd1023@infosec.exchange @moira@mastodon.murkworks.net It is possible I'm not being completely fair. I probably did subscribe to any number of Geek Social Fallacies (this preceding that blog post by 15+ years), and the conversation did actually simplify things going forward (we stayed out of each other's way and I no longer had to expend effort on getting along). In theory, if I'd ever wanted to claim the room for a party of my own I could have done so, but somehow this never. I yet remain mystified what the housing office was thinking in putting us together. I suspect they mostly gleefully ignored what people put on their roommate preference forms. 1.1/1.2
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 25, 2026
@spocko@mastodon.online And of course now I wonder if there are provisions for this sort of thing. e.g., can the IOC replace lost or stolen medals? Presumably one can insure them, I guess, though are there exceptions for acts of god or "stolen by the President of the United States"? or is it like, "You deliberately took it into a dangerous neighborhood; claim denied."
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@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... I took to spending Saturday nights in the computer center, the one building on on the Princeton campus that didn't close. I *was* actually taking my first EECS class
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@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... ABSOLUTE **FIREHOSE** of nerdery like nothing I'd ever seen before (and I like to think I was no slouch in this dept myself). We had one of those conversations that y
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 25, 2026
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net 12 years later, when I got hired by MSFT Research, I technically worked for Nathan, but as VP of ATBD, he was already 3 levels up, and (Director of Research) Rick Rashid was already doing everything that mattered w.r.t. managing the lab. Nathan and I *never* had occasion to interact. I physically saw him maybe once when someone pointed him out to me across the Bldg 9 cafeteria (which wasn't that big, but anyway), but that was all (no recognition; the red hair had likely faded). And he was already on his way out. Within a year or so ATBD became AT, Rick got promoted to VP, Nathan went off to go dig dinosaur bones in Montana and that was that. 5/6
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@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net So,... spring 1980: After some months of me missing ever more obvious hints from my freshman year roommate (first real encounter with passive-aggressive "Midwestern Nice"
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@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... I took to spending Saturday nights in the computer center, the one building on on the Princeton campus that didn't close. I *was* actually taking my first EECS class
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... ABSOLUTE **FIREHOSE** of nerdery like nothing I'd ever seen before (and I like to think I was no slouch in this dept myself). We had one of those conversations that y
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 25, 2026
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net Never got his name. He never got mine. (my freshman year conversations were like that; there was one guy I had to write a check to after having known him for a year and I was like, oh shit...). I also suck at facial recognition. I remember the bright red curly hair but not much else. (Yes, I am Very Bad at Networking; how could you tell?) Never saw him again. Evidently that was his last run, or we were just unlucky on timing thereafter. 4/n
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Quoting the previously-linked Seattle Times article: On May 31, 2014, before a visit to Seattle by Epstein, Myhrvold reached out and invited him to visit his labs and office at Intellectual Ventures,
Ancestor 2 @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net Open
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net So,... spring 1980: After some months of me missing ever more obvious hints from my freshman year roommate (first real encounter with passive-aggressive "Midwestern Nice"
Parent @wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net Open
@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... I took to spending Saturday nights in the computer center, the one building on on the Princeton campus that didn't close. I *was* actually taking my first EECS class
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 25, 2026
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... ABSOLUTE **FIREHOSE** of nerdery like nothing I'd ever seen before (and I like to think I was no slouch in this dept myself). We had one of those conversations that you can only have when you're 19, touching on every physics and SF topic under the sun. At some point maybe six hours later, I noticed it was light out, 7:30 in the morning. Realized I'd been up for 22 hours, starting to hit The Wall, so it was time to go see if the mj smoke had cleared out of my dorm room. I took my leave and that was that. Figured I'd see him again at some point. 3/n
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And here's the Seattle Times article: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/local-business/records-show-deeper-ties-between-epstein-ex-microsoft-exec-myhrvold/ Which includes reference to a trip to th
Ancestor 2 @moira@mastodon.murkworks.net Open
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net
Quoting the previously-linked Seattle Times article: On May 31, 2014, before a visit to Seattle by Epstein, Myhrvold reached out and invited him to visit his labs and office at Intellectual Ventures,
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net So,... spring 1980: After some months of me missing ever more obvious hints from my freshman year roommate (first real encounter with passive-aggressive "Midwestern Nice"
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Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 25, 2026
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net ... I took to spending Saturday nights in the computer center, the one building on on the Princeton campus that didn't close. I *was* actually taking my first EECS class that semester, so there was no shortage of stuff to do. On one of these occasions, sitting out in the lobby doing some physics homework, I encountered this guy. We got to talking. He was a physics grad student, running some massive simulation of something for his thesis, waiting for it to finish. 2/n
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Leaning heavily on a story in the Seattle Times two weeks ago (which I'll link in comments and has some _holy shit_ moments), the Russian dissident media Meduza finds there are also connections to Put
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@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net
And here's the Seattle Times article: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/local-business/records-show-deeper-ties-between-epstein-ex-microsoft-exec-myhrvold/ Which includes reference to a trip to th
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@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net
Quoting the previously-linked Seattle Times article: On May 31, 2014, before a visit to Seattle by Epstein, Myhrvold reached out and invited him to visit his labs and office at Intellectual Ventures,
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 25, 2026
@moira@mastodon.murkworks.net So,... spring 1980: After some months of me missing ever more obvious hints from my freshman year roommate (first real encounter with passive-aggressive "Midwestern Nice" that I, from NJ, found totally baffling), making him have to spell out in no uncertain terms (1) we were **not** friends, that (2) his announcing a party in our room should **not** be construed as an invitation, and that (3) I should find some other place to be on such occasions -- and, to be honest, the whole paradigm of sitting in the room with people I didn't really know, listening to music I didn't really like, while choking on 2nd-hand marijuana smoke was starting to get Old -- 1/n
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@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Moreover, in any context where you're actually having to write out a proof of Fermat's Little Theorem, it is very likely this work hasn't been done yet. An honest version of t
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@littmath@mathstodon.xyz LLMs have no clue about this stuff -- and even there, I'm anthropomorphising too much in suggesting there's "anything" there to "have a clue". All we really have here is sophi
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@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Or will it be "a library filled with statements of ZFC that **appear** to be true, are confidently **asserted** to be true, and, if we're lucky, 'proved' by references to othe
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 23, 2026
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Never mind that if you follow this method of proving Fermat's Little Theorem, you completely miss the (imho) far more informative/illuminating proof, the one in which you establish that multiplication mod p is invertible when p is prime, therefore the multiplicative side of Z/(p) is a finite group and so everything there has order dividing the order of the group (p-1). thereby actually learning something about the connections between group theory and number theory rather than being stuck proving an obscure fact about the divisibility of (n choose k) (and perhaps this is unfair of me, but if one is going to be touting this as The Future of Mathematics, I'd just as soon be clear about what we stand to lose...) 7/7
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@littmath@mathstodon.xyz The proposition we're apparently depending on, (a+b)^p = a^p + b^p is treated as obvious; not worth going into detail why it's true given the preconditions, no back-reference
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Moreover, in any context where you're actually having to write out a proof of Fermat's Little Theorem, it is very likely this work hasn't been done yet. An honest version of t
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz LLMs have no clue about this stuff -- and even there, I'm anthropomorphising too much in suggesting there's "anything" there to "have a clue". All we really have here is sophi
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 23, 2026
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Or will it be "a library filled with statements of ZFC that **appear** to be true, are confidently **asserted** to be true, and, if we're lucky, 'proved' by references to other statements in the library (assuming someone/something has reliably checked those already)? You could even imagine that the latter will not **entirely** useless, in that it may indeed inspire people to try to prove statements they otherwise would have never thought to try proving (even if they eventually have to do the actual work themselves and *not* be trusting the library's own derivations)... producing results we wouldn't otherwise have gotten. Maybe. 6/7
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@littmath@mathstodon.xyz The proposition we're apparently depending on, (a+b)^p = a^p + b^p is treated as obvious; not worth going into detail why it's true given the preconditions, no back-reference
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Moreover, in any context where you're actually having to write out a proof of Fermat's Little Theorem, it is very likely this work hasn't been done yet. An honest version of t
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 23, 2026
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz LLMs have no clue about this stuff -- and even there, I'm anthropomorphising too much in suggesting there's "anything" there to "have a clue". All we really have here is sophisticated pattern-matching on a template for an inductive proof that, after however many hours of hints, found a coherent sequence of true statements that fit the template And, to be fair, I don't doubt that some number of additional hours of labor could indeed coax GPT-3 into correctly establishing when p | (p choose k); the capability is undoubtedly there and maybe it can indeed be optimized to take less time. But what the hell do we actually have at the end of this road? Will it really be "a library filled with proofs of every theorem of ZFC"? 5/n
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@littmath@mathstodon.xyz The proposition we're apparently depending on, (a+b)^p = a^p + b^p is treated as obvious; not worth going into detail why it's true given the preconditions, no back-reference
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@wrog@mastodon.murkworks.net · Feb 23, 2026
@littmath@mathstodon.xyz Moreover, in any context where you're actually having to write out a proof of Fermat's Little Theorem, it is very likely this work hasn't been done yet. An honest version of this proof would either be doing the binomial-theorem expansion of ((a−1)+1)^p and showing that p divides (p choose k) if k is not 0 or p, or splitting this out into a lemma. This is the actual hard part of proving the theorem (i.e., if you're going to do it this way) ... and GPT-3 skips over it without the slightest notice, while at the same time wasting verbiage on 1^p=1 mod p, something that a human reader *would* find eminently skippable. 4/7
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